How long does it take to examine a Crime Scene?

26/11/2013

A few months ago, I was reading a crime / thriller novel set in Vatican City. (I’ll skip the title: I mention this to illustrate a point, not as a review). It was a fair example of its genre, and the author certainly seemed to know his stuff regarding the inner workings of the Vatican.

Until, that is, we got to a crucial plot point.

A murder has taken place in a very private part of the City. Time is tight, investigators are (for political reasons) only allowed a short time at the scene. The Head of the Forensic Science Department (or the equivalent in the Italian Police) is called in, and within an hour has completed his examination, found the crucial evidence, and left.

That, to me, was a major failing that nearly torpedoed the entire book. Because it just couldn’t happen that way.

Leave aside having a Head of Department carrying out the examination. No disrespect to any HoD’s, but it is not their job. They might have been pretty hot stuff at a crime scene once, but the best of them will admit that after a year or so behind a desk, they’re bound to get rusty. But perhaps it’s different in Italy. So I’ll pass over that, though with raised eyebrows.

The real problem here is that the forensic examination of a murder scene takes longer than an hour. A lot longer.

To give some idea of what’s involved, let’s think, first of all, of what a CSI might have to do at a basic burglary. On arrival at the scene, he or she first has to talk to someone (the victim or an attending police officer) and establish the facts. If it’s straightforward, and the person isn’t too garrulous, it might be possible to trim that down to ten minutes. Then the CSI does a visual exam of the scene, to confirm what might be suitable for closer inspection. Assuming that they’re pretty good, and it’s a small scene, that’s five minutes. Fingerprint powder on the Point Of Entry and, let’s say two items handled by the offender – fifteen minutes. Assume for this example that a footprint and a fingerprint are developed. Five minutes to draw a diagram, showing where they were found, with measurements. Ten minutes to recover each of them – assuming that they can be lifted off and don’t need photographing. Five minutes to get a copy of the victims fingerprints for elimination purposes, another five to tidy up and say goodbye.

That’s nearly an hour, just for a basic, no-frills, straightforward burglary. No DNA recovery, no general scene photography, no access routes to or from the scene. And we’ve not even considered writing up the scene report – still less the work that has to be done back at the office (booking in exhibits, updating databases, etc.)!

For a murder, you’re talking about a much more comprehensive and therefore much more time-consuming examination. For a start, everything in the scene is first photographed and videoed. And the scene would extend to all the possible exits, entrances, and routes between.

Then we get down to the details. Every footprint, partial footprint, trace of footprint, must be diagrammed, measured, photographed with scales. Every area of blood has to be assessed – is it spatter? Drops? Smears? - measured, diagrammed, and photographed. Blood samples have to be taken from all areas – and the exact position must be recorded, both in diagrams and photographs.

You’ve got several hours work there alone, and not just for one person either. Two CSI’s at a minimum, three more likely, and a Crime Scene Manager deciding strategy and directing operations. So far, you haven’t even begun on fingerprinting, or recovering items for lab work.

Most murder scenes will take several days to process properly. Quite apart from the work done by the CSI’s, outside experts will often be called in. A Pathologist, to look at the body in situ before it’s taken for a full post mortem. A Blood Pattern Analysis expert. A Ballistics expert if a gun was involved. If a gun has been left at the scene, that requires special treatment from a Firearms Officer. And so on.

The problem for the crime writer is that a full, accurate, blow-by-blow description of a scene examination would quickly become boring. You can’t say it as it is and expect to keep the reader’s attention. The writer’s skill comes in keeping it authentic whilst still keeping it moving!

Of course, even in the real world, there may be reasons why a scene examination has to be cut short. In an outside scene, for example, the weather may be a factor. So if your plot requires a curtailed examination you can work that in – but show that it is a less than ideal situation. Details will be missed, clues overlooked, evidence lost. Which is what happens when actual examinations are truncated.

Shortcuts are possible, but they carry risks and there has to be good reasons for them. For example, in one of my crime scene short stories, Ben Drummond (my main character) has to examine an apparent murder scene on his own. But that’s explained: it’s an outside scene, it’s getting dark, weather is deteriorating, no one else is available, etc. And because he’s really good at his job, he focus’s at once on the crucial bit of evidence and deals with that first. Just as should happen in a real life situation.

The writer should also remember that a minimalist examination is going to give rise to criticism further down the road. Senior officers will be reviewing the entire investigation. If it goes to court, defence lawyers will be looking very closely at how the examination was carried out. If a procedure wasn’t followed, a piece of evidence not properly recorded – then they can be expected to find out! Just one thing out of place might be enough to call the rest of the evidence into question and cause the case to fail.

So, Crime Writers – give your CSI’s time to do their job! Think days, not hours, think teams, not individuals, and think meticulous attention to detail. Because it’s that that gets the results in the real world.

68 Comments

Babs

26/11/2013 12:47:18

Very interesting and helpful article. Thank you, Paul.

Fran link

26/11/2013 12:50:24

Maybe they're just thinking ahead to the film version when it will take all of 5 minutes!

Paul Henry Trembling link

27/11/2013 12:05:02

If only it were like that in the real world! It wouldn't be such a struggle to get off on time some days!

Amelia link

8/11/2016 13:48:37

Thanks for writing this. I'm writing a crime scene in my current work in progress and I'm wondering in the case of a murder. How long does the pathologist have to wait before the victim can be removed from the crime scene? I'm starting my scene just before this happens. :-)

Paul Trembling link

8/11/2016 14:07:19

Hi, Amelia. There's no definite answer, the time varies according to the situation. However, in my experience it's almost certain that the pathologist will attend the crime scene themselves to examine the body 'in situ' before it is taken away for a full post mortem. This will typically happen early on, though it shouldn't be before CSI have completed their initial examination. This would include photographs and video, and identification of areas and objects in the scene that are of particular interest (bloodstained daggers, for instance!). They would then establish a 'Common Approach Path' - a route into the scene that would avoid contaminating any potential evidence. They'd probably put down stepping plates to minimize contact with the floor. And of course, everyone would where full forensic suits in the scene.

If everyone's on the ball, you might be able to get the pathologist into the scene within a few hours of the start of the examination - much would depend on the actual situation. After the pathologist has completed the initial examination, then the'd discuss with the Crime Scene Manager (senior CSI at the scene) and the SIO (Senior Investigating Officer) about when to move the body - probably as soon as possible.

This is all with British Police procedure's in mind, of course. Details would vary between Forces, and other countries might be very different.

Hope this helps!

Eyas link

5/6/2021 05:56:43

Thank you Amelia for asking my question and for you Paul for giving us such a compressive answer. My follow up question is; if the murder took place at night, is it possible that the pathologist and CSI team don't arrive until the morning of the following day? if that is possible, will the victim's body still be there or it would definitely be removed from crime scene.
Thank you very much!

Paul Trembling link

8/6/2021 08:32:21

Hi, Eyas.
The practice followed when I was working as a CSI (a few years ago now) is that in the event of a murder, or any major incident requiring CSI attendance, the first point of contact would be the on-call Senior CSI. They would then assess the requirements and probably contact the on-call CSI. They would then carry out initial examinations - starting with photography and video, then moving on to recovery of other evidence. If things moved on well, the scene would be ready for pathologists and other experts to attend as soon as possible in the morning - though they could also be called out in the night if necessary. If it was a big scene then other CSI's might be brought in to continue the examination - especially if the on-call person had been there all night and needed a break!

Of course, some examinations are best done in daylight, and depending on the situation the decision might be made to postpone some parts of the examination until then. External searches and photography, for example. It's surprising how much can be overlooked at night, even with good lighting!

Jake

27/3/2018 16:54:28

Hi Paul, great article, really helpful for writing.
I have a few questions, if you don't mind.
After an investigation is completed on a murder, how long before the premise can be occupied again? For example, if someone died of mysterious circumstances in their home, how long before their family could return to the site?
Secondly, what kind of condition do police tend to leave a scene in?
Is it complete cleaned? Would there be any evidence there has been a CSI? Police tape etc.
All the best,
J

Paul

27/3/2018 20:24:51

Hi Jake, glad the article was helpful. It is a few years old now, and I am now an 'ex-CSI', so some of the details of procedure may have changed - but I'm fairly confident that they won't have changed that much! It still takes time to examine a scene.

To answer your specific questions - how long does the premises remain a crime scene? (In Police jargon, how long is the scene 'kept on'). The answer is 'as long as is necessary' - which isn't perhaps very helpful, but that's the way it is. There are many factors involved - the nature of the crime, the complexity of the scene, the number of people available to process it, etc. The ultimate responsibility for deciding how long is with the Senior Investigating Officer (SIO), the senior detective in charge of the case. If they are any good at their job, they will be liaising closely with the Crime Scene Manager (CSM), usually a senior CSI, who will advise them on what can or should be done forensically. Normally they will want to lift (or release - another term used) the scene as soon as possible, but not before they're absolutely sure that there is no further examination to do. In a major crime scene, this is probably going to be days, possibly weeks and it could conceivably be longer - though the SIO's got to be able to justify that and cover it in their budget!

On the other question, the Police tend to leave a mess. In a burglary, the attending CSI will usually give advice on how to clear up. On occasion, they may decide to do it themselves, especially if the IP (injured party - victim, in other words) is elderly or in other ways unable to do it themselves. But that's normally just a matter of wiping off the fingerprint powder. In a major crime scene, all sorts of chemicals might be involved (i.e. to reveal trace blood stains, etc.) and these might take specialist cleaning. Plus cleaning up any actual blood - which could have serious health hazards involved. There are specialist cleaning companies that do that sort of thing, and the Police will often recommend one of them. Depends on local procedures. (I've used this sort of scenario in one of my books, and it gave an opportunity to bring some more information into the plot). Insurance companies should cover the cost - but it would be very rare for the Police to do so.

I hope that helps.

scott link

17/4/2018 14:58:49

thank you for this. i'll try to be brief...
body is found outside, in the woods, 4-6 days after the murder. it rained the night of the killing but not the day the body was found. a couple of fibers of material are found on a fence barb 100-150 meters from the body.
my questions: 1)would any blood found on the material be of use to detectives/csi or would the rain cause bacteria to form and contaminate it? 2) what is the likelihood that this fiber is not found the first search and is found a day or two later when our hero, on her own, has her "there has to be more" moment? 3) would footprints still be found after time and weather?
i'm trying to finish my first screenplay and the answers to these questions will really help. thank you, in advance, for your response.

Paul Trembling

17/4/2018 17:35:13

Ok, to answer your questions in order:

1) Blood should still be viable for DNA. There would be some degradation, but with modern techniques a profile can be obtained from a very small sample. Normal practice would be for all items of clothing or other material to be recovered (after being photographed in situ) and sent off to the lab where several samples would be taken from different areas to maximise the possibility of a result.
2) It's possible, though it would suggest that someone hadn't done the job properly in the first place. An initial examination of the entire area should have identified areas for more detailed examination, not just of the actual scene but of any access / exit routes. But human error occurs. To suggest a scenario - if the initial Police cordon had been set up wrongly, anything outside that might have been ignored. Especially as that would not have been preserved and any evidence found outside the cordon could have been left after the incident occurred. Your hero will have that problem - these fibres could have been left there at any time, and proving relevance, especially at such a distance, would potentially be an issue.
3) Footprints tend to degrade quite fast in wet weather, or in well travelled areas of course. If you're careful with the timings, it might be possible. The mark would have to be left in a protected area after the rain had stopped but while the ground was still wet and soft.

Hope this helps.

Kate Slate

15/8/2018 16:25:59

Excellent article, thank you. Quick question if you have time. Woman is found in her home w/3 gunshot wounds, one to the back of the head, one to the arm and one to the upper back. She is still breathing but soon after she arrives to the hospital, she is unplugged from life support and is pronounced dead. Prior to the break-in, her neighbor's home was robbed. Would you expect to see crime tape all over the neighborhood? Or at least, between the two homes? Or do you believe they would have no reason to tape that area off? Also, the police processed the crime scene in 10 hours and released the home back to her family, does that seem like a short time span to you? Police had to go back the next day to retrieve a bullet they missed in their first sweep, it was lodged in the staircase and they were able to retrieve it, but the professional cleaner's had already been there, so I am assuming the initial investigation was not done properly, does this sound right to you? Thank you!

Paul Trembling

19/8/2018 20:01:15

Hi, Kate. Glad you liked the article and thank you for the question. Sorry I've been a bit slow replying, I've been on holiday with limited internet access.

It's an interesting scenario you have here. It could be two seperate crimes, but given the proximity (both physically and in time) the Police would definitely treat them as connected unless proven otherwise. That being the case, the initial crime scene would include both houses and the immediate vicinity - at least until all possible access / exit routes had been examined. Though it would also depend on the sort of area. If there's a very busy street just outside, there would be very little point in subjecting it to an intensive examination. Depending on circumstances and if anything of value was found, the area surrounding the two houses might have the scene lifted within a few hours.

However, ten hours would certainly seem to be far too little time to properly examine a murder crime scene, especially when it's complicated by a burglary next door. The fact that the two scenes are possibly connected would mean that the burglary scene would need a much fuller examination than a burglary would normally require, and if resources allowed there would probably be two teams involved, one for each house. I wouldn't be surprised if several days were spent on the initial examination, and even after that the SIO (Senior Investigating Officer) might well want to keep it as a crime scene for a while afterwards, in case new information suggested different forensic examinations were required. Releasing the houses back to the families so soon seems very unlikely to me.

I would be very surprised indeed if something as significant as a bullet was missed during the first examination. That would suggest either serious incompetence or else that someone had interfered with the examination - had it cut short, perhaps, though if that happened the Crime Scene Manager would probably be furious and would make sure it was fully recorded in his or her report. Either way, somebody would be in serious trouble!

I hope this helps. Please keep in mind that what I say is based on my experience with a British Police Force - procedures and practices vary from place to place and country to country.

Do let me know if you have any further questions.

Kate Welling link

2/10/2018 21:02:45

Thanks for helping me understand how long crime scenes take. I understand that it would vary from one situation to another, but it is nuts that it can take multiple days! It makes sense because there are so many things that need to be tested, as you mentioned. If I was in the situation, I would call in a professional to come and clean the place after the investigation was over.

Paul Trembling

2/10/2018 22:34:12

Hi Kate. Glad it was helpful. Yes, people are often surprised by how a Crime Scene Examination takes - possibly due to TV conditioning, where two cases are wrapped up in an hour every week! On the other hand, in my time as a CSI I met some people who were surprised and a bit disappointed that the examination was so quick and failed to produce any evidence. But sometimes there's just nothing to examine.

Professional cleaning is the best way to go, especially after a major incident, but it's not a cheap option. Better hope the insurance covers it!

Joy Butler link

5/11/2018 21:45:15

A man in my community was recently murdered. This tragedy has had a heavy weigh on the people around us and I was curious as to what goes into a crime scene investigation and clean up. I didn't know that when they observe a crime scene, the scene includes all possible entrances and exits of the criminal. That is incredibly interesting to me. I would love to learn more about the whole process.

Paul Trembling

7/11/2018 10:05:17

Hi Joy. So sorry to hear about the tragic event in your community. The repercussions of such things are often much greater and more widely spread than people realise.

The full details of a crime scene examination, especially for a major crime like murder, would take a long time to go into! There is a lot of information on line - for example http://library.college.police.uk/docs/appref/ENFSI-BPM-v1_0.pdf

This is a manual produced by the European Network of Forensic Science Institutes and (though I haven't read it in detail) it seems to cover procedures and practices for crime scene examinations of all sorts. However, it is quite academic and not exactly light reading!

There are other resources available online, but if you want some lighter reading that is accurate about Crime Scene Examinations, there are some good novels out there. Including some of my own - if you'll forgive me for a bit of self promotion! Of course, it's not for me to say that they're good, but I can at least promise that the CSI side is accurate. If you don't want a full length novel, perhaps you'd like my collection of short stories, 'A Pattern of Murder', which cover several types of crime scene examination. (Details on my website).

Hope this helps.

Mark Murphy link

17/12/2018 16:54:31

I really appreciate your tip on how a professional crime scene team will be able to document everything that has happened in a crime scene so the police will know what they are dealing with. My brother's house got broken into recently while they were on vacation for a couple of days. I will be sure to tell him that he should get a professional crime scene team to scope out his house before he does anything!

Paul Trembling

23/12/2018 23:13:25

Hi Mark. Thanks for your comment, glad you found the post useful. Sorry to hear about the break in at your brother's house, that must have been terrible for them. Many people don't realise how devastating this crime can be for the victims. I hope they've come through it OK.

As for the crime scene examination - it depends on what your local Police procedures are. When I was active as a CSI (a few years ago now) domestic burglary's were treated as high priority (after violent and major crime of course), but that's not always the case.

Ideally, your cops got on the case and sent in a CSI as early as possible to recover any possible forensic evidence.

Luba

26/1/2019 19:44:47

Very interesting and helpful article. Thank you, Paul. I'm writing a crime scene in my current assignment, and few questions I have to answer, scenario:
The young couple and two kids going camping at National Forest. The gravel roads winds upward from the highway and follows a meandering stream. There are nice spot along the road where they parked to gain access to the stream. They find the spot where to pitch a tent and make a small campsite for the weekend. Within the first hour or so after setting up the camp the child tells dad that she needs go the bathroom. There is no facility of any kind at the location. There are two small trails that lead from the area of their tent. He hoists his daughter up on his hip and heads up the trail to find a spot for her to go to the bathroom. Dad notices large fallen tree that is now covered with moss. As he looks behind the log he sees the body of a male individual down in the low spot. It is obvious that the person is deceased and it does not appear that the body has been there for very long. Dad immediately grab the child, runs down the trail and call law enforcement.

You are that officer who assigned to preserve and begin processing the scene. Your supervisor tells you that no one else is available to assist you for at least an hour. What are you going to do for that first hour - then how will you complete the scene processing?
-actions when you arrive on scene
-approach to the area
-first processing actions
-first actions when you see the body
-your strategies for processing, when, how, resources needed etc.

Thank you for your help, Luba

Paul Trembling

26/1/2019 20:23:50

Hi Luba. Glad you found this helpful.
The problem in dealing with your questions is that specific procedures will vary widely between countries and even between different Agencies within those countries. My experience is from Nottinghamshire Police in the UK, so in your example, things might be done differently.
However, having said that, some factors will probably be common. Primarily, the first priority would be to check for and confirm that the person is indeed dead. Normal British procedure would be to have paramedics attend to check for any signs of life. The question would also have to be asked, is there any continuing danger to life? If the person appeared to have died from gunshot wounds, is there someone still out there with a gun? Common sense and good practice would say that all members of the public should be cleared away from the area as soon as possible.

In any case, the next primary function of the first attending officer should be to preserve the scene - which would also include keeping members of the public away. One officer on his or her own will obviously be limited in what they can do in that regard - they wouldn't be able to set up a proper secure cordon - but they should certainly prevent anyone else approaching the body, or even using any approach routes.
The officer themselves should try and approach by the route used by the reporting person. They should have as little interaction with the body or surrounding area of possible, They might take photographs of the body and scene and/or make notes of initial observations but only in so far as they can without disturbing the area.

They would need to get full contact details for anyone in the area and perhaps take initial statements.

I would assume that they would be in touch with their supervisor and would call in confirmation of a death, initial observations and assessment of numbers needed to properly contain the scene.

It would then be a matter of waiting for the arrival of more officers, including perhaps a detective to take charge and direct further investigation. I'd certainly expect CSI to attend to carry out proper forensic examinations.

If other factors intervene, such as bad weather, the officer may have to break with ideal procedure to preserve as much of the scene as possible - i.e. cover the body with something. Bear in mind that anything used to cover the body then becomes part of the scene and would have to be recovered by CSI in case it has picked up any trace evidence - so don't use your best coat!

I hope this helps. Best of luck with the assignment, and do feel free to contact me again with any further questions.

Paul.

Luba

29/1/2019 04:40:49

Thank you very-very much for your help. Sincerely, Luba

Francine Clark

30/5/2019 00:47:02

Just woundering my son has passed 2/yrs ago I still believe it was a set up of the hanging he was made to do a few people was involved in the crime my son was in a shed the anther people said we going to get fish an chips an we will be back the reckon the shed was locked my son was inside hanging thay reckon thay trued to open shed caint see no break in at all as I went an had a look there was a hole we’re u could see in shed an u could not see nothing when looking through the hole so how did thay no he was hanging I keep this short but could tell u more

Paul Trembling

30/5/2019 16:26:50

So sorry to hear about this, Francine. How tragic, and terribly sad for you. I wish I had some helpful advice to offer, but can only express my deepest sympathy.
Paul.

Tina

5/8/2019 16:14:17

Hi: I found this informative. In my second book, arson is committed at one of my character's restaurant, and the restaurant wasn't released until a month later. Is that accurate? I had mentioned homeland security, it happened in New York etc. Just double checking my facts. In my third novel, my character is raped, but her entire house ends up being a crime scene, how long would it take for forensics...I didn't have her being able to get back to her home until months later, is that accurate? Again, I want to be accurate and authentic. So any help would greatly be appreciated.

Paul

5/8/2019 17:19:14

Hi Tina.
The first thing to say is that of course different Police Forces and different countries will have different procedures - and also different resources available. Arson's are often difficult scenes to work due to the degree of damage. Significant evidence is often hidden under ash and debris and the examination might be further complicated by structural damage. Much would also depend on the size and extent of the scene, and other factors such as if there were any bodies. A full examination of a large scene (assuming adequate resources could be allocated) might take several days to a week. However, it might remain a sealed crime scene for longer than that, especially if the person in charge of the investigation (Senior Investigation Officer or SIO in the UK, I don't know about NY) thinks that there might be further evidence to recover. Sometimes, for example, the investigation has to progress further in other areas before CSI's can go back to the scene with a better idea of what to look for.

Some of these factors would also apply to a rape scene. Depending on the size of the house and the nature of the crime (i.e. was there a forced entry? Did the rape take place in one location or several? Is there a possibility of multiple perpetrators? And so on) it could take a week or more. And again, it would then be up to the lead officer to decide when to release the scene. In the UK there is often pressure to release it as soon as possible - financial pressures if nothing else! - but a good SIO will not let it go until they are certain that all forensic possibilities have been exhausted.

Having said that, to be honest with you 'months' sounds like its stretching things a bit. I would expect that all forensic possibilities would have been dealt with after a couple of weeks at the most. But there might well be other factors involved. If I was writing something like that I'd be looking to throw something else into the mix to make it more plausible. Political factors, perhaps ('You release nothing till this guy is caught! We've got to be seen to be busy!') or personality issues. Then again, if there's a series of related crimes, someone might take the decision to retain all potentially linked scenes for possible further examination - though the value of that might be debatable, and it does imply that the CSI's missed something crucial.

Hope this helps!

Jan

19/5/2020 13:47:01

I'm very late to this, and I've read all the helpful answers you've given so far, so most of my questions have been answered.

I have a fictional crime scene that happens on a boat dock. A man is stabbed. I now know that the body will remain there longer than I would have thought, and there would be divers checking under water for evidence under the dock.

Now, the victim's father works with him. He was not present at the time of the crime and has no first-hand information. I know they'll want to talk to him, but would it be right away? Would they talk long if he was overwhelmed by grief? Or possibly come back tomorrow?

Thanks.

Paul Trembling

20/5/2020 08:50:12

Hi Jan. I'm glad you found the post helpful. I'm amazed that I'm still getting responses to it after seven years - it has to be the most successful blog I ever did!

The answer to your question is that there are no precise answers to such a situation. How soon would they want to talk to the victims father depends on a host of factors - how busy the investigating team are, how many people are available, what other evidence they have to look at, the personality of the Senior Investigating Officer, what sort of state if the victims father in... etc.

The good thing about that from a writer's POV is that you can play it anyway you like, providing you show the logic of how you got there. For example, a possible scenario is this...

At an early stage, a detective is sent to interview the father, but finds him in shock. He may be a bit frail anyway, so beyond answering a few basic questions - confirming that they worked together, last time he saw him, that sort of thing - the detective decides not to go any further at that point. And besides, there may be some good forensic evidence at the scene that needs to be followed up urgently. If, for example, a knife was found nearby, not obvious blood but it would be sent to the lab for proper examination - and suppose it has initials cut into the handle that could be from another employee at the dock? Priority might well be given to finding this person and confirming if it is their knife. (Not trying to hijack your plot, just an example of how it could be made to work!).

Given that combination of factors, talking to the father might well be put off till the next day - though I imagine it would still be on the 'to do' list.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Good luck with the writing!

Stephanie

2/6/2020 03:39:55

Hello, I'm sorry that I'm making a comment almost a decade later after you made this post, but your post and replies to the other's comments were very helpful to me (and I also have a few questions for a story that I'm writing)

If a child was murdered at their own house, would the people who live in that same house still be able to live there while the investigation is going on (for weeks/months?)

And if the gun that was used to murder the victim was thrown in a river, would there still be fingerprints on the bullets if it was somehow dry inside the gun?

One more question, (sorry) but if the fingerprints on the fired and not fired bullet(s) had the suspects fingerprints, would that be enough evidence to arrest that person right away without interrogation?

Paul Trembling

2/6/2020 10:15:45

Hi Stephanie. Thanks for your question - it's not at all a problem that your comment comes so long after my original post, I'm just glad that people are still finding it helpful.

In regard to your specific questions:

1) In regard to the child murdered in the house, much would depend on the specifics of the case. Initially at least the entire house would be considered a crime scene, and the occupants would have to leave for a while whilst the forensic examination was carried out. This might take a while. Again, it depends on the circumstances, but it would be reasonable for a full CSI team to be there for several days, or a week.

After that, the decision to release the scene would be down to the person in charge of the case - the Senior Investigating Officer (SIO) in the UK. Usually they'd consult with the Crime Scene Manager (CSM), the senior CSI in charge of the examination. It might be that they would decide to keep part of the house, or one room, secure as part of the investigation but that would be unusual in my experience and raises practical difficulties, especially for the family who live there. If the CSI team have done their job properly there should be nothing more to learn from the scene.

(One of the things that often annoys me in a TV drama is the cliched scene where the detective goes back to the house after all the examinations are completed and discovers the crucial bit of evidence that everyone else has overlooked!)

Of course, different countries might have different procedures, so always try and check what the local and current situation is.

2) Fingerprints can be recovered from bullets, especially the cartridge casings. Also DNA. However, that would be a problem if it was in the river! If it were kept dry in some way, that might be possible, but you'd have to be very careful about how you set that up. For one thing, the barrel would have to be sealed - and why would the murderer do that with a gun they were throwing away? And even with the barrel sealed, the rest of the weapon would still be liable to water intrusion. A bullet actually in the chamber might stay dry, since the chamber is obviously tightly sealed, but anything in the magazine would be wet. Dried out, chemical techniques might still produce a viable result, but you'd be on dodgy ground if you based a plot round that!

You'd also need to consider what sort of gun it is, and how it's going to be connected to the murder. If it's a revolver, it might still have a discharged cartridge, but an automatic would have ejected it. Depending on its condition, it might be possible to fire it for ballistic comparison purposes, but that could be effected by a long immersion and water damage. Also, if a cartridge case was ejected and recovered from the scene it might be possible to match it to the recovered gun through firing pin marks - and fingerprints or DNA would be much better preserved than on anything that had been in the water.

3) If the gun is definitely linked to the murder (by ballistics, for example) or even just likely to be connected (by reason of calibre, proximity to the scene, cartridge cases possible left at the scene, etc.) and also linked to the suspect (fingerprints, DNA, suspect seen with a similar weapon at another time, etc.) then that would be grounds for an arrest. Plus which the Police would want to seize all their clothing for forensics, looking for gunshot residue, blood or other things that would connect them to the scene, and it is important to do that as soon as possible. So with that degree of evidence they'd probably go for a quick arrest. That doesn't mean that the case would be ready for court, the investigation would be ongoing.

I hope this has been helpful. Do let me know if you have any further questions. Best of luck with the writing!

Stefan Gymning

12/10/2020 00:25:04

Hello. While I was doing some of my usual fact search I found your blog and was struck of the insight you're giving. Well, my question is regarding to my writing, where two burglars is caught by the owner, an old man, who from a stair (this is a mansion) upstairs surprises them. The man suddenly seems to lose balance and tumbles down the stairs and the burglars makes their escape. In their panic to escape they get into their car parked at the curb on the street a block away and hits the cars parked in front and behind, before they can flee.
Now, the old man that tumbled down the stair was actually struck from behind at the back of his head with a baseball bat. Will this come out in an investigation as a result of his fall? Secondly, I know in moves that the investigators can trace a car through paint from the car, but is this possible in "real life"?
Best regards
Stefan

Paul Trembling

12/10/2020 09:37:45

Hi Stefan. Thanks for reading the blog, I'm glad it was helpful.

In regard to your questions - 1) The old man hit from behind and falling down the stairs. In this situation, though there would be multiple injuries from the fall, it's reasonable to assume that a good pathologist would pick up on the fact that the blow to the back of the head (from a baseball bat) would be significantly different. They would be looking at things like the shape and depth of the injury, and comparing it to objects the falling body might have struck, but it would be quite plausible for them to determine that the injury was caused by a blunt object striking hard from behind and causing the fall, very possibly being the cause of death.

2) The simple answer is yes, cars can be traced by paint transfer, but there are a number of caveats to that. Bear in mind that most car paints are standard: a good paint sample could lead to identifying the make or possibly even the model, but not the actual vehicle. Unless there was something distinctive about the paint on that car, such as a custom paint job.

However, if the Police recovered a vehicle suspected of being involved, matching paint samples could confirm that. Especially in this case, since from your scenario the vehicle collided with two others, front and back - two areas of damage, two different areas of paint transfer. Very strong evidence.

Hope this answers your questions.

Stefan Gymning

15/10/2020 18:32:33

Thanks for your answer and really interesting answers. Thanks thousand times
Stefan

Stefan Gymning

22/10/2020 20:32:07

Hello.
I hope you won't mine a second post from me. I found your info extremely useful and a question has popped up after I have gone through Police Policy and Procedure Manuals from close to 80 US Police Departments which is extremely deep and rich in information. Opposite to "Hollywood" view in movies and series, a death investigation can't even have access to the body(-is) or crime scene before the ME done their investigation. The Officers can't even touch the body and also need a warrant. That or an approval from the ME.

I'm not sure how it works in the UK or from your rich personal experience, but how do this work in "real life".
Considering that there much be so many time factors involved for an investigation, isn't this a handicap or more the opposite?
Best regards
Stefan

Paul Trembling

23/10/2020 09:19:03

Hello again Stefan, and nice to hear back from you!

I certainly couldn't comment on the US Police Procedures - you'll know a lot more than me about it, with all that research! As to the UK procedures, you should be aware that I may not be fully up to date on the latest situation: it has been seven years since I wrote this blog, and it's now about four years since I was a CSI.

However, in regard to your question, this is what I know or remember from my experience.

In the British setup, any unexplained, unusual or suspicious death would probably have a Post Mortem (autopsy) carried out by a pathologist. However, this would not preceed the Police investigation, but would be part of it. In many cases, the pathologist would attend the crime scene to examine the body in situ before carrying out a more detailed examination after it has been recovered back to the mortuary. The decision on calling in the Pathologist would be made by the Senior Investigating Officer (SIO - senior Police officer in charge of the investigation), often on advice of the Crime Scene Manager (CSM - Senior CSI in charge of the crime scene). Other experts might be called in at various stages, such as a ballistics expert if a firearm was involved.

It is a time consuming business, but it has to be done correctly in order to recover all possible evidence - and in order to be able to show in court that this had happened.

Once all forensic examinations had been completed, the body could be released - again, the SIO has the decision on this. At some stage there would be a formal inquest at which the Coroner would gather the evidence necessary to rule on a cause of death. This might happen weeks or months after the crime, and wouldn't have any direct bearing on the investigation.

I hope this answers your question.

Stefan Gymning

23/10/2020 09:38:57

Thanks for your reply and the answers on my questions. It's really helpful.
Best regards
Stefan

Taylor Hicken link

4/12/2020 04:56:38

You made a good point when you shared that a murder case has to be properly examined for several days in order to obtain the necessary information. It is very important to provide enough time for the investigators to search for proofs that can help the case. I would like to think if a lawyer is responsible for a criminal case, he should hire a reliable service to conduct an investigation on the crime scene.

Paul Trembling link

4/12/2020 10:23:51

Thanks for your comments, Taylor.

In the UK, all crime scene investigation is carried out by the Police. The idea of a lawyer hiring an investigator to carry out a separate crime scene examination may be useful as a plot device in a novel or a film, but it doesn't happen here - though of course, it might well do in other countries with different criminal justice systems. My knowledge on that is very limited!

In any case, there would be considerable problems with carrying out a second crime scene examination. Inevitably, as the initial examination proceeds, changes are made to the scene. Evidence is removed, items are moved to facilitate examination. Some examination processes are destructive: for example, once an area has been examined for fingerprints it will be contaminated with fingerprint powder. For this reason all examinations are carried out in a strict sequence, which always begins with photographs and / or video, then proceeds through less destructive to more destructive examination techniques. And of course every stage is recorded in detail.

All this information is subsequently made available to lawyers involved in the case. If they feel that some part has not been done correctly, then it can be challenged in court. Some aspects of the investigation could be repeated - such as DNA profiling, providing the initial sample is large enough - but it is unlikely if not impossible for the entire investigation to be done again.

I hope this is of help or interest.

Rayo

14/12/2020 14:27:22

Thanks for writing this! It was really helpful. I’m writing a murder mystery and I’d like to know if a witness can be arrested for false statement after an accused confesses to his crime. Since an oath hasn’t be sworn, and trial hasn’t began. Can the witness be jailed?

Paul Trembling

15/12/2020 11:07:38

Hi Rayo. Glad you found this helpful. To answer your question, first of all keep in mind that procedures vary from place to place, so do check what the situation is in the place where your story is set.

Also, the circumstances of a false statement are relevant. Is it a genuine mistake - or a deliberate attempt to implicate an innocent person? Or was it intended to divert the Police investigation? How it is dealt with will depend on this sort of detail.

If it's no more than a mistake or some silly attempt at a joke (such things have happened!) then the person concerned would probably be let off with a warning. If the intent was more sinister, then at the least they could be charged (in the UK) with Wasting Police Time. The problem would be in proving intent / motivation.

I'm not a legal expert, so I'm not sure if a more serious charge could be brought. Of course, lying in court, under oath, would be perjury, but outside of that, misdirecting a Police investigation could perhaps be 'Perverting the Course of Justice'. You'd need to research that further, perhaps - this might be a good place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverting_the_course_of_justice

Hope this helps. Good luck with the writing!

Julian G King

30/12/2020 20:56:37

Great blog, Paul, and it looks like you're still taking questions!

I'll make mine short. From your excellent blog and the answers in the comments section, as a crime writer could I assume:the body won't be released to the mortuary and will remain under the crime scene tent (rural location) until:

(a) all forensic evidence at the death scene has been gathered, ie, the body is only removed after the police are done with investigating the death scene (however long this takes).

OR:

(b) a coroner has performed an on-scene autopsy, after which he can remove the body while surrounding foresnsic evidence is still being evaluated.

Could either (a) or (b) result in the entire crime scene being preserved in situ (including the body) for a couple of days at least? It's quite interesting to me how a loved one's dead body can be just left in situ for however long it's needed, hindering the family's capacity to grieve.

Many thanks in advance, and have a happy new year!

J

Paul Trembling

31/12/2020 10:58:35

Hi Julian,
Glad you liked the blog, and yes, I'm still taking questions.

You raise an interesting issue, and one which comes up at most crime scenes in one way or another. There is always a degree of tension between wanting to carry out the most thorough examination possible, and giving consideration to the needs of the victims (or relatives of victims in the case of a death). Even in a basic burglary you can find that the Injured Party is impatient to get things cleaned up and back to normal - sometimes they do it before CSI even attends! At the other extreme, they can sometimes go to extreme lengths to avoid disturbing any evidence ('I haven't dared use the toilet because the burglar went in there!' It has happened!)

In a murder scene, the final decision on when to release the scene will be made by the SIO, in UK Police Forces, or the equivalent in other countries. But, whilst taking the families grief into account, they would still want the investigation to be done thoroughly. A pathologist would usually attend the scene for initial examination of the body, which would probably involve some moving of it in order to examine what's underneath, to look for other injuries, etc.

After the Pathologist was happy that his / her initial examination was completed, the SIO would probably have the body removed for a full Post Mortem (Autopsy). The crime scene would remain, however, as CSI's did other work in and around the site.

The body would be removed ASAP - there are obvious practical considerations about leaving it in situ for long periods. I can't recall any suspicious death that I attended or heard about where the body remained in situ for more than a few hours.

The body would not be finally released for burial or cremation until an inquest had taken place, where it would be the job of the Coroner to sum up all the evidence held at the time and decide if the death could be fully accounted for and cause of death recorded (UK procedure). This could be some time later, weeks or even months - a difficult time for the family. The murder investigation might still be ongoing at that point, of course.

I hope that helps. Feel free to get back to me if you have more questions. Happy New Year!

Stefan Gymning

2/1/2021 01:39:23

Hello Paul
Happy New Year and I hope the COVID not putting to much trouble for you. I'm glad you still taking questions, even though I seem have to bother you plenty. What can I say? You're an excellent source.

My question is about fingerprint on a crime scene. As I understand, there can be much harder to get a fingerprint in real life than in movies and shows on TV. I take it that with blood present there can be much easier to extract finger and palm print.

Also, how much weight does a real crime scene technician really put on locked doors? In movies, a door locked from inside seems to be the definitively outcome. Still, as a Special Constable and a Security Guard in Sweden 30 years ago, I was trained how to lock a dead bolt from outside, as we handled alarm response and sometimes had no keys to secure the building. But these were the times when alarms didn't have any fancy codes, but switches.

When it comes to handling crime scene, in your experience, was there any help mentally for technicians? I mean, some scenes is really, really gruesome and that must take a lot of a person.

Also, if I may add to the previous question regarding to the body removal, I found that in the USA's mid-west such as in Minnesota and Wisconsin, where I placing my writings, only the ME/coroner can give the police the OK to investigate the body and basically the police need to wait for the ME/Coroner before they can move in. Found that actually the ME in these two states have been extremely helpful to provide with information, so also the DA or CA (County Attorney), as they are called in Minnesota.

A final question. I was trying to purchase your books on PDF but couldn't. The reason is that the mail service during these difficult times, isn't operating as before. Further, now with COVID its hard to get mail from abroad (I'm in northern Ontario, Canada). Found that Amazon isn't that reliable these times either.

Best regards
Stefan

Paul Trembling

2/1/2021 18:06:54

Hello Stefan, and a Happy New Year to you as well (in spite of Covid, I hope!). Glad I'm able to be of help again.

Regarding fingerprints - the biggest problem I have with the way fingerprint recovery is often depicted on TV or in films - or very often in novels - is that some writers seem to have the idea that fingerprints can be found on any surface that the offender may have touched. This is not the case. Many surfaces are very poor for fingerprinting, owing to the material, the nature of the surface (rough, for example), or because they are dirty. As a rule of thumb, surfaces that might show good fingerprints are smooth and shiny. Glass, for example, is ideal (unless it's frosted or otherwise roughened). Some plastics, gloss painted surfaces, etc. - these are the sort of things a CSI will look for. But old and flaking paintwork, rusty metal, rough wood, most fabrics, skin, etc. - a CSI won't even bother getting out their powder and brush for those!

Some materials will produce better results with chemical treatment in the lab. Paper or cardboard, for example and plastics - my usual practice when I was working as a CSI was to recover them for the fingerprint lab.

The situation is a bit different when blood is present. If someone has blood on their fingers or hands and then touches another surface, it might well leave fingerprints that show sufficient skin ridge detail for identification. The same also applies to other substances - paint, grease, sauce, etc.

However, you still might be defeated by the surface! A fingermark in blood or another substance, left on a rough surface, might not show enough skin ridge detail to allow for identification. The problem is that the fine lines that make up the unique patterns of fingerprints are broken or distorted when left on a rough surface, and therefore of no value. Once again, smooth surfaces are best.

There is also the problem that if the medium (be it blood, paint or whatever) is too thick, you will get a finger-shape but no detail. Or if it's too thin, the detail won't be visible.

If there is enough to be viable, the fingerprint will need to be photographed, rather than lifted. And if it is blood, that will need to be swabbed and recovered for DNA profiling.

(Of course, bloody fingerprints at a crime scene will be photographed and recorded to show position, direction and so on. These would usually be separate from any images recorded to show skin ridge detail).

OK, locked doors. They make for great stories, but in practice it rarely happens. But if you've got a dead body in a room with no apparent means of access from outside - i.e. doors, windows, etc. locked from the inside - the first thought is probably going to be suicide. However, the locks would be examined for signs of interference.

I have used the locked room scenario myself, in a short story, where the CSI notices marks on the key that indicate it was turned from outside with a pair of needle-nosed pliers. Another possibility might be marks in the frame that indicate it was sprung open, then forced shut again. So it's possible, but in a real life situation, probably not the first thing a CSI would think of.

Yes, crime scenes can be gruesome, and counselling is, I believe available if necessary. I never used it myself. Perhaps I'm just insensitive? But when you're examining a crime scene, you're focused on the technicalities of the job. The first sudden death I attended on my own was especially messy - a young woman who had fallen from a block of flats. I was a bit surprised at myself for not being more affected by it, but in truth my biggest concern was had I taken enough phots (yes, too many probably) and should I have used a tripod (would have been better for some shots).

Glad to hear that the local authorities are being helpful to you regarding their procedures. Generally speaking, most will be. They'd rather you got it right!

And on the books - all my books are available as Kindle e-books from Amazon. Some are on other platforms as well. I'm not aware of any of them being on PDF. Sorry about that. Some are available as paperbacks, but I appreciate that the mail might not be very reliable. Thanks for your interest - was there any specific one you were trying to get hold of?

Regards, Paul.

Stefan Gymning

3/1/2021 18:46:54

Hi Paul
Thanks for your reply. I learned that duct tape is perfect to lock a lock from outside.
You really writing a lot and thanks for the information about Kindle e-books. I'm interested of your books with the crime scene in mind. The 'Can of Worms' seems interesting.

Best regards
Stefan

Paul Trembling

3/1/2021 19:51:34

Stefan,

Yes, duct tape can be very useful stuff!

Can of Worms was my first novel, so perhaps not my best writing, but there's a lot of CSI detail in it. You might also like my CSI short story collection, A Pattern of Murder, which was written around several different examples of what evidence might be recovered at a crime scene.

Enjoy!

Stefan Gymning

3/1/2021 23:14:38

Hi Paul

The short story collection sounds interesting. I'm interested in all aspects about CSIs work and its reality. I have found that that's is an angle hard to find. I'm a kind of fact freak, to much facts maybe sometimes.

Thanks again
Stefan

Stefan Gymning

12/1/2021 00:05:29

Hi Paul

Started to read "A Pattern of Murder" and what story I really liked was "A Whiff of Homicide". The description about the crime scene actually took me back 30 years when I did several crime scene security of arson cases. I could actually smell the smoke and feel the water on the floor under my boots. I got what you mention about locked doors. Just started with "Local Artist".
Really like all CSI info

Stefan

Paul Trembling

12/1/2021 11:27:52

Excellent! Glad you liked the stories. I did spend some time over the arson scene description - trying to re-create the experience of being in a burnt-out room - so I'm glad to hear it worked for you.

If you could put a review on Amazon or wherever, that would be much appreciated!

Local Artist is less crime scene based in its plot, though it does have a bit of police and CSI procedure in it. I hope you enjoy it as well. The fourth in the 'Local' series is written around a CSI main character (who is actually a minor character in Local Artist) but I'm not sure when it will be out, as I'm currently short of a publisher! Keep an eye on my FB page (Paul Trembling - Writing) for news.

Paul.

Paul.

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Sharen

13/10/2021 18:36:10

Hi Paul. Thank you for a wonderful article and for sharing subsequent helpful insight. I have a few questions. Some are within the scope of your practice as an ex-CSI. Some clearly aren't, but I'm wondering if you have some insight to share.

A middle aged man is murdered, who happened to work at the Lawrence Livermore Lab at the time U.S. weapons were built there. His brother (a CIA agent) is framed for the murder, as the brothers did not get along and the deceased is found in his brother's apartment.

There's no need for specifics about the crime scene in my story- thank heavens. After reading your article, insight and stories, I have a new appreciation for the work and its complexity.

QUESTION 1
In my story, the brother has been occupied- being questioned for approximately 48 hours. Upon returning to his apartment, he finds that the crime scene has been processed and released. Does this time frame seem plausible to you?

QUESTION 2
The accused and his CIA-partner then goes to his murdered brother's home to search for clues to who did it. But do CSIs ever expand the crime scene investigation to include the deceased home? How quickly would the CSI do so? I'm wondering if the CSI would have already removed any evidence they could find from the deceased brother's home? Or is this left to lawyers?

QUESTION 3
This is the one not necessarily related to crime scene investigations. The accused brother has connections that afford him time out of jail (without bail) to solve the murder. To do so, he has to fly to a couple of states in the U.S., then to Brazil. Could this be a possibility? Or could it be plausible?

Many thanks in advance,
Sharen

Paul Trembling

16/10/2021 14:09:01

Hi Sharen. Thanks for the questions, glad you liked the article.

Q1. My first thought was that 48 hours seemed a bit fast for processing and releasing a murder scene. However, there are a LOT of variable factors. For a start, the scene itself. How complicated is it? A large apartment or just one or two rooms? Is there a lot of blood, or none at all. Any indication of a struggle, a search, or a forced entry? All those things could add to the time needed.

Then there's how many CSI's are available. Usually, the more the better, up to the point where they start getting in each other's way! Much depends on the resources available. And of course, every force has it's own procedures to follow, which might effect time taken.

So 48 hours is not impossible, but I'd be inclined to give it longer if you can. Or else make it plausible by having a very simple scene and plenty of resources. It might help if there's outside factors - such as political pressure to wrap it up quickly?

Q2. Again, there'll be local procedures to consider. I'd certainly expect detectives to visit the deceased's home. What they find would determine if it was a crime scene requiring CSI. For example, has someone else searched there? Any forced entry? Think what connection is there with the actual murder, apart from the identity of the occupant. A cautious detective might want a forensic examination doing anyway (and the primary scene would probably not be released until this was completed, in case evidence was found which had a bearing on the first scene examination). On the other hand, if there's no obvious connection and pressure on time or resources, they might consider a detective's examination sufficient.

In either case, any evidence found would be removed, either for lab examination or for storage pending further investigations.

The common standby for authors in such cases is for the main character to find something that CSI has missed. Be careful of that, though, it's a bit of a cliché! Besides, CSI's don't miss much - but keep in mind that they would be looking for evidence relating directly to the murder. If the significance is not immediately obvious, they might not recover it,

Q3. I'm not sure about this. It would depend, I suppose, on local law - but I'd be surprised if a suspect in a murder case, even if on bail, would be allowed to travel any distance at all, let alone out of the country. You might need to research that further. But for plausibility, you might need to have him go on the run.

Hope this helps. Best of luck with the writing.

Paul.

Eli Richardson link

29/3/2022 16:13:43

It's great that you talked about crime scenes and how many specialists are involved after one. The other day, my cousin said he's interested in forensics and knowing what an expert does. I think your article could help my cousin learn about a crime scene examination, so I'll share it now. I appreciate your information on how crime scenes often use outside consultants like blood pattern analysis specialists.

Paul Trembling

30/3/2022 10:13:31

Eli - thanks for reading and commenting. Please to share it around to anyone who might be interested - I hope your cousin finds it interesting.

Ben Francis

21/6/2022 11:12:46

Dear Paul

Thank you for this very interesting post. I am writing a crime novel where someone is murdered by the killer substituting aspirin for the victim's heart tablets. Although there is somebody who insists that the victim was murdered I am assuming that, as the victim had a history of heart problems, and there is no obvious motive for the crime (the victim isn't rich and has no known enemies), and there is no trace of poison or violence, that it would be possible for the police to treat the death as not suspicious. In which case, roughly how long would the police keep the body before releasing it for cremation?

With thanks

Ben

Paul Trembling

21/6/2022 11:35:13

Hi Ben, glad you found it interesting.

I'm afraid that there's no exact answer for your question, as procedures vary greatly in this sort of situation. Different countries, and even different forces have different rules. In the UK, if a Doctor provides a Medical Certificate of Cause of Death then the body can be released immediately. There's quite a long list of circumstances where there can't happen: in which case then the death has to be reported to the Coroner. They will then decide if a Certificate can be issued, or if a post mortem (autopsy) is needed, or if a full inquest has to take place.

This is quite a useful website for more detail: https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/626/coroners/5532/when_death_occurs

Of course, if your book isn't set in the UK you'll need to research the procedures applicable in that country.

Hope this helps.

Paul.

Ben Francis

26/7/2022 08:49:08

Thanks Paul, that's very helpful. It's good to get the details right. Best wishes Ben.

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Neil Cutler

23/12/2022 22:22:57

Paul,

I began searching the Internet for useful information on how long a detective will remain at a murder site and was directed to your posting Incredible and precise information. Thank you. Excellent follow up ion all the questions too and that was a help (and appreciated) as well.

Here’s one more. Intruder breaks into a house with the intent on killing the victim. The basics: summer, 8 pm, the victim has left the patio sliding door open. Killer enters though this door, sneaks up on the victim who is watching television and stranglers her. Less than 2 minutes later he exits the same way he came in and disappears into the night.

The killer wore booties, pants, long sleeve shirt, and a full mask that covers his head.

This occurred on a Friday and the victim is found Tuesday morning.

What special precautions will need to be taken by the investigative team? How long with the detectives and others be on scene, and based on the method of killing blood splattering, and nothing was touched by the killer other than his gloved hands, what else might they be looking for?

Thank you for any information and insight you can provide.

Paul Trembling

24/12/2022 12:30:31

Hi Neil,

Glad you found the post and follow up helpful. Two things to say before I try and answer your questions: 1) Police procedures do vary from place to place and force to force, so if you're writing about a specific area, it's probably best to run it by someone with local knowledge, if possible. 2) I've been out of this game for a few years now, so I'm not up to date with the latest methods. However, the basics will probably not have changed.

You have a very clear scenario for this crime. However, there are a few points that need to be considered. For example, how was the victim strangled. Bare hands? Not easy to do, it requires a surprising amount of strength to choke someone to death like that, especially someone sitting. Easier if they are on the floor and the killer can get on top of them. But perhaps more likely that they would use some sort of cord or wire. This could be significant, because a very narrow cord (or wire) might cut the skin, leaving blood traces - on the victim, in the room and possibly on the killer's clothing. Of course, the means of strangulation will be formally established in a Post Mortem exam, but initial examination in situ (a pathologist will very likely be called to the scene) will give the examining team some information, and that will inform the investigation. So they might be looking for a length of wire or cord with the victims blood on, perhaps dropped in the scene or nearby - and it might even have fibres on it from the killer's gloves. (Or other clothing. DId they have it in a pocket? If they put it back in a pocket, has that left blood traces inside their clothing?)

Another question would be how did they reach the house and the patio door? Over a fence? Through a garden? All offer possibilities for clothing fibres to have been left.

And, of course, footprints. In soft soil in the garden? Muddy footprints on the patio or inside the house? Has it rained recently? Is there some residue on the killers footwear that they've brought in from elsewhere? (Paint, oil, different soil, traces of vegetation, etc.)

Footprints and fibres could be very important as the killer was wearing gloves, but a full fingerprint examination would still have to take place. If glove marks are developed that would not only prove they were wearing gloves, but a glove pattern might indicate what type of glove, and an individual mark (a tear in the fabric?) could identify a specific item.

After several days in summer heat, decomposition will have begun and the body will be very unpleasant and obviously a health hazard. However, the examination team would be wearing full PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) as a matter of course - suits, masks, hoods, gloves (double gloves) and over-boots, all disposable of course. It would probably take several days for the forensic examination of the scene, and the detectives would probably be searching for any other indication of who the killer might have been and why the victim was killed. Anything like that should ideally be photographed and properly recovered.

Good luck with the investigation!

Paul.

Ali link

12/2/2023 13:00:19

Hi Paul,

Just wanted to say how much I appreciate your informative blog - it’s helping me enormously with the script I’m currently writing!

Ali

Paul Trembling

13/2/2023 14:15:28

Hi Ali,

Glad you found the blog useful, and thanks for letting me know - feedback is always appreciated! Good luck with your script.

Paul.

How long does it take to examine a Crime Scene?

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